[yocto-ab] YP Advisory Board: April meeting minutes & new member info

[Cobbley, David A]

I agree that having members commit resources to advance the work is ideal.  I believe the current rules do call for committed engineers and/or contributions.  However,  issue is appears to be that some members do not actually follow that commitment, or they tend to count resources/contributions for deliverables that mostly favor their own organization.

If we could tackle this issue - holding members accountable for their resource/contribution commitments - that would help our situation immensely.

--David C

-----Original Message-----
From: yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Ricci, Davide
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 1:02 PM
To: William Mills <wmills at ti.com>; Jeff Osier-Mixon <jefro at jefro.net>; Justin Waters <justin.waters at timesys.com>
Cc: yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
Subject: Re: [yocto-ab] YP Advisory Board: April meeting minutes & new member info

Two options maybe? :

- get enough $ to fund the work
- get enough help (read "committed people / engineers / marketeers ") from the participating organizations to do the work 

Linaro has a similar model in place - membership fee + engineers. 

Conf call is definitely better.

D


________________________________________
From: yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org [yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org] on behalf of William Mills [wmills at ti.com]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 12:49 PM
To: Jeff Osier-Mixon; Justin Waters
Cc: yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
Subject: Re: [yocto-ab] YP Advisory Board: April meeting minutes & new member info

>>> I am doing my best to influence changes within  MontaVista.
>>>
>>> - armin

No worries Armin.  I know the members in the project are working with good intent.  I think we just need to reset management expectations on the true cost of this project.  In my own company it is a heck of a lot easier to get $5K to travel to meetings in EU or Asia but try to allocate $5K for an external software project is a major pitch.

On 04/22/2016 02:16 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> This is an excellent question. The answer right now is no, we don't - 
> we have so far left it up to individual organizations to decide the 
> level at which they want to participate. This is different from LF's 
> process of deciding solely based on organization size because we 
> didn't want to prevent anyone from joining if, as has happened, YP is 
> being used by a team of 30 people in a company of 10,000. Should we 
> base their scale on the group or the company, knowing we won't get 
> them as members in the latter case?

Even in the LF model, the org chooses the level.  However the dues at [some?] levels are based on company size.

Jeffro: can you get the sliding scale LF uses for Silver membership?
If need be share this info on the yocto-ab-private list.

> So we have left that decision to
> the member themselves. As a result we have several very large 
> companies at Silver level, but I believe they are companies we would 
> not have at all otherwise. It might make sense at this point, 5 1/2 
> years in, to create a table outlining expectations of membership 
> level, participation, etc.
>
> I would suggest that if the project directly benefits the bottom line, 
> an organization owes it to itself to participate and help guide the 
> direction of the project. Thus, any company that relies on YP as an 
> upstream or as a resource to support their own products (e.g. if they 
> host a BSP layer) should be expected to join at the highest level they 
> can reasonably afford, because YP is critical to their business. That 
> said, each org has its own definition of what it can afford. In the 
> guidelines for YP Participant status, we outlined large vs. small as 
> being around 80 employees, on the theory that any company larger than 
> that would have the resources to at least join as Silver.
>

If the size criteria gets too sticky, we also talked about adding a Bronze level or AB votes for reduced dues to companies we explicitly want in the project.

With 3 (Platinum, Gold, Silver) or 4 (+Bronze) levels we definitely need to make the membership level more prominent on the website.  I understand this has some down sides but at the end of the day this is the biggest "get" from a higher level; recognition that you are a major supporter to YP.

> It is also worth noting that every change we make in our guidelines 
> ripples through the pipeline of organizations interested in joining.
>
> It might be most expedient for someone or a small sub-group to come up 
> with a strawman proposal for us to alter. Any volunteers?
>

I am happy to work in this group.  I would prefer to do it on a conf call.  We have tried to the e-mail list route a couple times and I am not convinced we will close this way.

> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Justin Waters 
> <justin.waters at timesys.com> wrote:
>> Do we have clear guidelines as to who we would consider good 
>> candidates for each membership level? As in, size of company, 
>> dependence on Yocto for their products, etc?
>>
>> Having a document or table like this would give us a couple of 
>> things: 1) Something to take to upper management to make the case 
>> that a higher level of participation is warranted, and b) that the 
>> expectations are consistent and fair to everyone involved.
>>
>> I think we have a good enough sample size of members to pull some 
>> numbers together. And it would help clarify who we consider "large" 
>> and who we consider "small".
>>
>> -Justin
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:35 PM, akuster <akuster at mvista.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/19/2016 07:42 AM, William Mills wrote:
>>>> I have no issue giving small companies a price break in some way 
>>>> (Bronze or sliding silver).
>>>> However, expecting Gold members to take up all the slack and larger 
>>>> SIlver members pay nothing extra is not acceptable to TI.
>>>
>>> As I am with one of those larger Silver members that pay nothing 
>>> extra, I understand your frustration and share your frustration.
>>>
>>> I am doing my best to influence changes within  MontaVista.
>>>
>>> - armin
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/18/2016 01:39 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>>>>> It is worth mentioning that there are other possibilities as well.
>>>>> Here are some ideas:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Bronze level at a lower price point
>>>>> - Sliding scale for Silver based on company size, say 5k - 20k
>>>>> - Dues increase only for Gold, not for Silver
>>>>> - Dues increase to 60k for Gold, 0 for Silver
>>>>>
>>>>> There are pros and cons for each of these. We need to keep in mind 
>>>>> that the goal is to keep the project fully funded, to keep the 
>>>>> documentation production at its normal rate, and to keep member 
>>>>> value high.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Erway, Tracey M 
>>>>> <tracey.m.erway at intel.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Jefro corrected me:  "Dues are billed annually in January, so we 
>>>>>> can't raise them in 2016. We asked people to donate spare cash, as Renesas did."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Erway, 
>>>>>> Tracey M
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:55 AM
>>>>>> To: Jeff Osier-Mixon; yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [yocto-ab] YP Advisory Board: April meeting minutes 
>>>>>> & new member info
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The purpose of upping the dues was to cover this year's 
>>>>>> shortfall.  We need a solution that raises funds in the immediate 
>>>>>> timeframe, so future guidelines will not address the issue.
>>>>>> /t
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:yocto-ab-bounces at yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Jeff 
>>>>>> Osier-Mixon
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:50 AM
>>>>>> To: yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [yocto-ab] YP Advisory Board: April meeting minutes 
>>>>>> & new member info
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi again - I'm following up on the potential dues increase in 
>>>>>> 2017. I had a conversation with Otavio this morning, and he 
>>>>>> suggested that some of the Silver members might have a great deal 
>>>>>> of difficulty with a 50% increase in dues, especially as they are 
>>>>>> all currently paying for LF corporate membership as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose that we consider keeping Silver at 10k annually, but 
>>>>>> placing stronger guidelines on which organizations can join as Silver.
>>>>>> Alternatively, we could reopen the discussion about Bronze level. 
>>>>>> I think it is paramount to the community to have an affordable 
>>>>>> participation level that still has access to YP Compatible status.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts welcome
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon 
>>>>>> <jefro at jefro.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Note to new members - I have tried to add information in these 
>>>>>>> minutes to help explain the roles of each of the groups within 
>>>>>>> the project, so these minutes are quite long but hopefully 
>>>>>>> informative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yocto Project Advisory Board
>>>>>>> Wed April 6, 2016
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Attendees:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracey Erway, Intel
>>>>>>> Cyril Chemparathy, Xilinx
>>>>>>> Justin Waters, Timesys
>>>>>>> Bill Mills, TI
>>>>>>> Chris Hallinan, Mentor Graphics
>>>>>>> Armin Kuster, MontaVista
>>>>>>> Munakata-san, Renesas
>>>>>>> Stu Grossman. Juniper
>>>>>>> Tyler Baker, Linaro
>>>>>>> Philip Balister, OpenEmbedded
>>>>>>> Jeff Osier-Mixon, YP/Intel
>>>>>>> Lieu Ta, Wind River
>>>>>>> Richard Purdie, YP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I missed your name on the attendee list, please let me know. 
>>>>>>> We did have a quorum and were able to vote in the meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> New Members & Special Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project welcomed new members Linaro and Xilinx, as well as 
>>>>>>> returning member Timesys. Thanks for being part of the Yocto Project!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Special thanks to Renesas, who donated cash in Q1 to help pay 
>>>>>>> for documentation and Developer Day, and to Intel, who also 
>>>>>>> donated cash in Q1 to help pay for documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Budget
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lieu Ta from Wind River is responsible for Finance within the 
>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project has an annual budget of approximately US$400k. With 
>>>>>>> this budget, we pay for the following categories of expenses, 
>>>>>>> with 2015 percentages shown:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Infrastructure (66%): physical and network infrastructure, 
>>>>>>> including build systems and servers, and systems administrator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Operations (15%): basic project operations, including legal as 
>>>>>>> well as 15% overhead to LF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Advocacy (13%): activities often provided by marketing 
>>>>>>> organizations, including collateral, public relations, outbound 
>>>>>>> communications, and event coverage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Documentation (5%): we pay a contract technical writer to 
>>>>>>> create documentation for the project. (This expense is expected 
>>>>>>> to grow significantly in 2016)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Community (1%): this budget covers gaps, including meeting 
>>>>>>> expenses, donations to related organizations like OpenEmbedded, 
>>>>>>> paid internships such as Outreachy, and occasionally travel for 
>>>>>>> specific vital personnel to important gatherings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lieu presented the results of the 2015 budget. Income and 
>>>>>>> expenses were very nearly on par, with a small shortfall due to 
>>>>>>> documentation expenses. The 2015 figures are currently posted on the wiki at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Yocto_Project_Finances
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We discussed the ongoing 2016 budget, which is expecting some 
>>>>>>> notable shortfalls primarily due to the project taking on the 
>>>>>>> cost of documentation, expected to cost $120k-150k/year. We also 
>>>>>>> discussed the
>>>>>>> 2017 budget. This discussion is presented later in these minutes 
>>>>>>> as part of the discussion about membership and business development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Advocacy & Events
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracey Erway from Intel leads the Advocacy effort for YP, with 
>>>>>>> help from the Advocacy team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracey presented a summary of advocacy activities, including 
>>>>>>> events, giveaways, Developer Day training sessions, and the 
>>>>>>> backgrounder that was finished last year. She also mentioned 
>>>>>>> that YP currently has 80% of the commercial embedded linux OS 
>>>>>>> market share, which is great news indeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 2015 we attended and sponsored ELC and ELCE, and also added 
>>>>>>> SCaLE in early 2016 along with a free-to-attend introductory 
>>>>>>> training session, or "mini-DevDay" event, with training provided 
>>>>>>> by LF Training.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Developer Day US 2015 in San Jose was actually profitable due to 
>>>>>>> the efforts of Mentor Graphics and the donation of their 
>>>>>>> facility. Both DevDays were greatly enhanced by the donation and 
>>>>>>> subsequent giveaway of a great deal of hardware from Intel, TI, 
>>>>>>> and TechNexion, as well as SanDisk. DevDay US 2016 was made 
>>>>>>> possible by a large cash donation from Renesas as well as 
>>>>>>> hardware donations from Linaro, TI, and Intel.
>>>>>>> All DevDay sessions are driven by the tireless effort of many 
>>>>>>> volunteer speakers, classroom helpers, and organizers to reach
>>>>>>> 150-200
>>>>>>> students directly each year, who then take that knowledge back 
>>>>>>> to their companies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andreea completed work on the YP backgrounder, a brochure with 
>>>>>>> two versions that is available in the YP booth at all events. 
>>>>>>> PDF versions have been sent to all member organizations so they 
>>>>>>> can print it and bring it to events that YP does not sponsor. 
>>>>>>> The longer of the two, which contains profiles of each 
>>>>>>> organization that contributed now needs to be updated because of 
>>>>>>> our new members, but the smaller version still works just fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracey identified the website as a primary need. It needs to be 
>>>>>>> refreshed with an easier to read front page, a regular blog, and 
>>>>>>> better information flow for new users. Several people have 
>>>>>>> volunteered ideas - at this point what is needed is funding and 
>>>>>>> resources to make it happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Mills cautioned the organization to not be too marketing 
>>>>>>> driven, which we discussed as a group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jefro congratulated the Advocacy team for getting so much done 
>>>>>>> on such a small budget.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Infrastructure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Halstead is a systems administrator who started with YP 
>>>>>>> in the very early days as a contractor. He is now an employee at 
>>>>>>> Linux Foundation working solely on YP. His salary as well as all 
>>>>>>> the servers and infrastructure he works on come from this 
>>>>>>> budget.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael gave a rundown on our infrastructure, particularly the 
>>>>>>> build machines and autobuilders he manages along with the 
>>>>>>> servers, particularly the git server and all community assets 
>>>>>>> such as the mailing lists, wiki, and bugzilla.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott Rifenbark is the project's technical writer. He sometimes 
>>>>>>> works in conjunction with other resources donated by member 
>>>>>>> organizations, particularly Intel. Scott has been with the 
>>>>>>> project since before its launch in 2010. He previously worked as 
>>>>>>> an Intel employee, but since fall 2015 he has been contracted to the project through LF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since documentation is one of the primary value adds that the 
>>>>>>> project provides to its members, this is an important resource to hang onto.
>>>>>>> We have paid for Scott's work to date by donations from member 
>>>>>>> organizations, particularly Intel and Renesas. If documentation 
>>>>>>> is important to you, please consider donating for this budget 
>>>>>>> specifically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To pay for documentation, the Advisory Board discussed three 
>>>>>>> major funding ideas, which are covered next.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Business Development and Membership
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The project has had between 17 and 20 members for most of its 
>>>>>>> existence, and while the budget has always been one of the 
>>>>>>> smallest among the LF Collaborative Projects, we have provided 
>>>>>>> quite a lot of value to the members and to the general public 
>>>>>>> with what we had. It is noteworthy that the project has been 
>>>>>>> self-sustaining for nearly all of the five years it has existed, 
>>>>>>> and we want to continue that success going forward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the expenses and income the project expects for 2016, 
>>>>>>> particularly the added load of documentation, we discussed at 
>>>>>>> length ways to increase the available funds through business 
>>>>>>> development and membership dues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We settled on five specific actions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Establish a new membership level: Platinum, with dues of 100k 
>>>>>>> (or more). Each Platinum member gets two votes on the Advisory Board.
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> is effective immediately, and any member organization can switch 
>>>>>>> to Platinum at any time. Each member org is tasked with the 
>>>>>>> action to pitch this membership level to their management 
>>>>>>> structure to see if it is feasible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Propose to raise dues starting in 2017. The current proposal 
>>>>>>> is to move Gold members to 55k per year, an increase of 10k, and 
>>>>>>> Silver members to 15k per year, an increase of 5k. Each member 
>>>>>>> org is tasked with the action to let their organizations know 
>>>>>>> this increase has been proposed and to report back to the group 
>>>>>>> in May.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Become more active and involved as a group in recruiting new 
>>>>>>> member organizations. To that end, several members are 
>>>>>>> interested in exploring the new member pipeline and also in 
>>>>>>> looking to their own network of partners to expand project membership.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - A potential non-voting Bronze level was also discussed, with 
>>>>>>> potential dues of 1k to 5k and various member values and 
>>>>>>> potential restrictions. However, this would provide minimal 
>>>>>>> benefit to the project, so it was decided instead to establish a 
>>>>>>> YP Supporter level to recognize anyone who donates any amount to 
>>>>>>> the project lower than a Silver membership. Jefro will follow up 
>>>>>>> on how this recognition is to be done, including a provisional 
>>>>>>> YP Supporter badge similar to YP Participant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - We also discussed establishing clearer guidelines on member 
>>>>>>> value, especially in terms of access to the primary YP git 
>>>>>>> server at git.yoctoproject.org. The team has an action to review 
>>>>>>> the current tree of layers available on the git server so that 
>>>>>>> more valuable layers will be more prominent. It was noted that 
>>>>>>> some hosted hardware layers are not represented by the companies 
>>>>>>> who produce the hardware, so the team agreed to approach those 
>>>>>>> companies for silver membership, and potentially to formalize 
>>>>>>> autobuilder access and QA support as member benefits. RP has the 
>>>>>>> lead responsibility for these things, with Jefro planning to 
>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Along those same lines, the BSP layer definition was planned to 
>>>>>>> be discussed at the OpenEmbedded meeting later in the week. RP 
>>>>>>> agreed to discuss BSPs in more detail at th enext Advisory Board 
>>>>>>> meeting in May.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracey offered to write up some of the data she has access to in 
>>>>>>> terms of market share so that members can use it to promote YP 
>>>>>>> inside their own organizations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Members can always donate funds, as Renesas and Intel have 
>>>>>>> recently, and it is good to remember that each organization has 
>>>>>>> a responsibility to donate human resources to the project, as 
>>>>>>> mentioned in the membership agreement. Most member organizations 
>>>>>>> have at least one person working full-time on YP issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One more note about membership. Please be aware that while the 
>>>>>>> project currently places no concrete restrictions on membership 
>>>>>>> level, there is an expectation that a member org's chosen level 
>>>>>>> will correspond to some degree with organization size, but 
>>>>>>> mostly with the real value it gets from the project. Members 
>>>>>>> rely on YP as an upstream for their own software products, as an 
>>>>>>> enabling tool for their hardware BSPs, or as a primary tool for 
>>>>>>> creating operating systems for commercial embedded products. 
>>>>>>> Given the extremely high market penetration the project has 
>>>>>>> established in only five years, project dues are very 
>>>>>>> inexpensive compared to the value received. These are vital 
>>>>>>> business functions, so it makes sense to support the project as 
>>>>>>> fully as your organization can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Community
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Community management is a gap-filling role within the 
>>>>>>> organization, with a charter to listen to each of the 
>>>>>>> communities within the project
>>>>>>> - users, maintainers, technical leaders, maintainers - and to 
>>>>>>> monitor and enable their efforts. Jeff "Jefro" Osier-Mixon is 
>>>>>>> the community manager, and he also serves as business liaison to 
>>>>>>> the technical writer, project liaison to Michael Halstead, and 
>>>>>>> contributor to Advocacy and other efforts within the organization.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As we were short on time, Jefro briefly discussed the vibrant 
>>>>>>> and very active YP community, which has experienced a 
>>>>>>> rock-steady growth since the project's inception, having grown 
>>>>>>> out of the already active OpenEmbedded community. The project 
>>>>>>> has 35-50 distinct committers each month, and a very active 
>>>>>>> codebase. (More technical stats at
>>>>>>> https://www.openhub.net/p/YoctoProject) The website experiences 
>>>>>>> on the order of 2.8M pageviews annually. The mailing lists are 
>>>>>>> home to about
>>>>>>> 2500 very active developers, and we have active presence on 
>>>>>>> several social media sites.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some statistics are available, and more metrics are being 
>>>>>>> developed this year, but we discussed briefly that they are not 
>>>>>>> entirely meaningful other than to establish and track trends. As 
>>>>>>> project godfather Dave Stewart said once, it isn't the raw 
>>>>>>> number of participants that matters, it's that we reach the 
>>>>>>> right participants, those who benefit from the project and those 
>>>>>>> who can do good for the project in return. With 80% market share 
>>>>>>> and many thousands of individual users worldwide, I think we are 
>>>>>>> currently successful with that, and it will continue to be our core value.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please feel free to contact me directly or comment on this 
>>>>>>> thread to the Advisory Board, and don't hesitate to reach out to 
>>>>>>> me personally if anything is unclear or if you have any questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for participating!
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jeff Osier-Mixon
>>>>>>> Open Source Community Architect, Intel Corporation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jeff Osier-Mixon
>>>>>> Open Source Community Architect, Intel Corporation
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> yocto-ab mailing list
>>>>>> yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-ab
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> yocto-ab mailing list
>>>>>> yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
>>>>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-ab
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yocto-ab mailing list
>>> yocto-ab at yoctoproject.org
>>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-ab
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Justin Waters
>> Director of Engineering
>> Timesys Corporation
>
>
>
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