Tuesday, 2013-09-03

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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #275 of nightly-x86-64 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-x86-64/builds/27502:43
-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #278 of nightly-ppc is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-ppc/builds/27802:45
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #278 of nightly-multilib is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-multilib/builds/27802:59
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #281 of nightly-x86 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-x86/builds/28104:33
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mckoangood morning07:26
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RPmorning all07:31
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mckoanhi RP, all07:38
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bluelightningmorning all08:01
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pevAnyone know about pkg_postinst_${PN} execution?08:42
tfpev: it's run post installation08:43
pevtf: My understanding is that it runs both on the dev machine and on the target - is there a simple way to provoke it to run on either as it looks like my rule in the recipe never gets called in either case and cant work out how to debug it...08:45
tfpev it runs on the target if it did not succeed on the host08:45
tfyou test the ${D} var to tell if you are on target or host08:46
pevtf: Yep, I know about that, but it doesnt seem to get called at all08:46
pevI cloned the logic from : https://github.com/openembedded/meta-oe/blob/master/meta-oe/recipes-support/debianutils/debianutils_2.30.bb08:47
pevtf: However adding echos (and operations that change files) to both cases and I dont see either the echos or the results of the operations08:48
pevso wondering how to explicitly force the rule to execute to debug...08:48
tfpev: and where are you looking for the changes/output?08:51
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pevtf: For echos, Initially in the output of bitbake -v when building the image, also under <build>/tmp/log/* - for the changes I had the rule touch files in the build dir and in /etc on the target using unique names08:52
tfthe output should be in the rootfs log for the image08:53
pevtf: Can I get bitbake to *just* build the rootfs alone to test this?08:55
tfbuild the image08:55
uvanDear all, does anyone know exactly which Linux version will be used in Yocto release 1.5?08:56
pevYeah, I'm doing that but wondered if you could isolate the rootfs phase of that alone...08:56
ant_workuvan: 3.1008:57
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ant_workuvan: and 3.4 (LTS)09:00
uvanant_work: i want to know exactly is 3.10.9 or 3.1009:00
ant_worknormally th elast patchsets are applied09:00
ant_workso the 3.10.x of october probably09:01
bluelightninguvan: most recent patches already merged say it is based on 3.10.909:01
pevtf: OK, figured that out and it seems I can provoke that ok now, so second question is that if I've built it in to an image that I'm putting on to the target, at what point should the postinst code execute on the device and where from?09:01
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uvanant_work: thanks ant_work, bluelighting09:02
ant_workuvan: https://www.kernel.org/09:02
uvanyes ant_work09:03
ant_workI guess it could be 3.10.12 by the time09:03
uvanbecause we are prepare to migrate Linux to 3.10 version to match with yocto release 1.5. so need the release info09:03
ant_workbut really, this is uninfluent: the recipe is updated09:04
ant_workthat's what matters ;)09:04
pevOk, I'm confused now - so pkg_postinst runs on the host when building the rootfs. However it looks like the postinst scripts live on the target under /var/lib/opkg - but if the package is already in the image from image creation time, this doesnt look like it's ever run?09:06
pevis it only ever run on the target if you manually add via opkg?09:06
bluelightninguvan: best person to talk to is Bruce Ashfield (zeddii) for definitive answers on the final version09:07
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uvanbluelightning: thanks, i will find him09:09
pev...and it looks like postinsts should be run by S98run-postinsts ; except thats not there on my system for some reason, and it gets created by /var/lib/opkg/info/opkg.postinst which looks like a catch22 if it's not being run itself??09:11
bluelightningpev: you don't by chance have opkg installed without package-management in IMAGE_FEATURES?09:12
pevbluelightning:  I don't *think* so, just trying to work out what my recipe picks in  from other layers...  Is there a way to easily show what it's set at for your environment?09:20
Stygiabluelightning, Hey, just FYI, I am gradually renaming all my recipes to the libX-perl convention, but! There definitively was a perl-module-X convention at _some_ time, may be long ago, because I see perl-module-X as dependencies for many of the libX-perl recipes on various git's. But they _are_ the old ones, to be fair. :)09:21
StygiaBut like I said, it's _Just_ FYI. No complaints.09:22
bluelightningpev: bitbake -e your-image-name is the best way to inspect variable values09:23
Stygiabluelightning, Heh, I finally got time to actually do it this week, less on my table and boss' is out (And pre-approved my doing this).09:23
bluelightningStygia: awesome, much appreciated :)09:23
Stygiabluelightning, How much does it matter to write .inc files that are generic and then bb files that require it? Is that strongly important, or is having just a recipe for the necessary version fine?09:24
pevbluelightning:  Ah, that's useful, thanks! That gives me : IMAGE_FEATURES="debug-tweaks package-management"09:24
bluelightningStygia: for the perl distribution itself I think perl-module-xyz is used yes, but outside of there libxyz-perl is the convention09:24
bluelightningpev: ok, so not the situation I was thinking of in that case09:25
pevHm :-/09:25
Stygiabluelightning, Well either way, I'll make everything be libX-perl and put it in meta-perl, yea?09:25
bluelightningStygia: just the recipe is fine; in the old days we had inc files shared by different versions but that's less important these days09:25
Stygiabluelightning, Alright, good.09:25
Stygiabluelightning, Because that'd be sort of a pain to do. :P09:26
Stygiabluelightning, Hmm. If something depends on libc6, is that worth mentioning as a DEPENDS, or is that pretty much implicit?09:26
Stygiabluelightning, Specifically a DEPEND and not RDEPEND09:26
bluelightningStygia: right, splitting out the inc after the fact would be painful :)09:26
bluelightningStygia: a dependency on libc is implicit unless INHIBIT_DEFAULT_DEPS has been set to "1"09:27
tfStygia: depends, really09:27
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tfStygia: but if it only depends on libc, then that needs to be in DEPENDS, nothing is really implict09:27
StygiaCan you guys fight it out and tell me the answer? :)09:28
tfStygia: go with bluelightning09:28
Stygiatf, Alright, if you say so.09:28
Stygiatf, I have time to do it right now, though.09:28
StygiaAnd I'm not gonna rewrite this another time. So how it gets to be now is how I'll commit it.09:29
bluelightningStygia: if INHIBIT_DEFAULT_DEPS is not set and HOST_SYS != BUILD_SYS (i.e. cross-compiling) then "virtual/${TARGET_PREFIX}gcc virtual/${TARGET_PREFIX}compilerlibs virtual/libc" is added to DEPENDS (you can see this in base.bbclass)09:30
Stygiabluelightning, Well that does sound pretty definitive.09:30
StygiaAnd I'll say if someone inhibits the default deps it's his problem that stuff doesn't compile, yea?09:30
bluelightningright, you would only set that if you know the compiler/libc aren't needed09:31
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pevbluelightning:  Ah - it appears the opkg S98run-postsinsts is a self-deleting script so it might be running and just failing to call my own packages postinst it seems! I've added debug to itself to see if that's what's happening...09:38
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rburtonpev: postinst scripts that compete successfully at rootfs time don't re-run on the target09:41
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pevrburton: I used this as a template : https://bitbucket.org/lokkju/openpli-oe/src/37f87a47a88d/packages/netkit-tftp/netkit-tftpd_0.17.bb09:57
pevrburton:  it does an "exit 1" which I assumed would signal a non-completion on the host during rootfs so that wouldn't occur?09:58
pevrburton:  Although given that I can see it running on the host I'm almost tempted to say **** it and jsut hack it in as this is seeming to take a hell of a long time to just change a couple of lines in a daemons .conf file... :-D09:59
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rburtonhi sameo10:01
sameorburton: Hey there10:01
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pevOK, so the S98run-postinsts seems to run correctly (and then delete itself) so the next question is why doesn't that in turn call my packages postinst?  All the script does in the end is invoke "opkg-cl configure" so why would this call / not call my packages postinst?10:05
rburtonit should...10:06
pevrburton:  I'm a bit out of my depth knowing nothing much about opkg - is there an easy way to test/debug this kind of thing?10:10
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Stygiapev, Man opkg?10:23
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erenopkg is really great10:24
erenit runs very fast actually10:25
* eren lately trying the new image with opkg feeds10:25
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StygiaIsn't it a bit weird that the RPROVIDES in the perl recipe use the perl-module-X convention, whereas CPAN modules use libX-perl?10:29
StygiaIt strikes me as confusing.10:30
bluelightningwell, it does at least let you know where the package comes from10:32
bluelightningbut I'm not sure if there is any other reason for the difference10:32
bluelightningFWIW it's been that way since the OE-Classic days10:32
StygiaHmm alright.10:33
StygiaWell it just looks weird to have perl-module-strict as a dependency along with libcarp-perl, for example.10:33
StygiaAnd hmm. Would using metacpan instead of cpan for "homepage" be frowned upon? Metacpan is where I get the metadata and it's essentially an improved cpan (website).10:35
Stygiabluelightning, Any opinion?10:37
bluelightningStygia: I don't see an issue with that; as long as the HOMEPAGE link gives an up-to-date location for info on the upstream project, that should be OK10:38
Stygiabluelightning, Fantastic then, and yup, that's what metacpan does.10:39
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Stygiabluelightning, Because that's what I have everywhere... it would be painful to fix. :P10:39
Stygiafind . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i "s/:\/\/meta/:\/\//gi"10:40
StygiaNot painful. :P10:40
StygiaBut anyway, fine.10:40
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StygiaQuestion, is there any issue with UTF8 characters in recipes that aren't part of the normal English charset?11:34
StygiaThe author of one of the CPAN thingimajigs I'm writing a recipe for is called Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason.11:35
StygiaIcelandic name I'm pretty sure, but is there any issue keeping it like that in the recipe?11:35
StygiaCould be Norwegian, but never mind that.11:36
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StygiaI suppose it could introduce issues with maintaining it: Most people can't do æ ø å ä ö â and so on...11:47
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rburtonStygia: its only got to be written once11:48
Stygiarburton, Yup. But I take it, then, no issues?11:49
StygiaI'm sorta hoping you've got your stuff ported to python3, that has unicode magically working. Python2 is more difficult.11:49
StygiaWell I'm gonna push recipes with UTF8 encoding unless anyone says differently.11:51
ant_workStygia: watch out on patchwork11:53
ant_workI remember issues with dev names11:53
Stygiaant_work, patchwork?11:54
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Stygia(developers, developers, developers)11:54
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Stygiaant_work, I'm not sure what you mean.11:55
zibrihttp://patchwork.openembedded.org/ i guess11:56
Stygiazibri, Hmm right.11:57
Stygiaant_work, So.... what do you recommend?11:57
StygiaAnd does anyone here know if bb handles UTF8 properly, or if there are confirmed issues?11:57
ant_worktry a test msg11:57
ant_workI'm pretty sure most keep finger off utf811:58
Stygiaant_work, Hmm what was it again... bb_something? For a print statement?11:58
ant_workbb.note ?11:59
Stygiaant_work, I don't think so, If I wanted to print some UTF8 chars in a do_install_prepend?11:59
Stygiaant_work, is bb.note a function? Doesn't look like it to me from naming.11:59
zibri`grep --include '*.inc' --include '*.bb' -r '[ßåäöÅÄÖÆæØø]' meta` doesn't give a single hit :(11:59
ant_workeven Angstrom gave up11:59
StygiaNow I wonder if it's Angstrøm, Angström, or what. :P12:00
ant_workbut we like pioneers :)12:00
zibristygia: it's a python function, but you can use bbnote12:00
zibribbnote from shell fragments, that is12:00
Stygiazibri, bbnote ah right, so bbnote "æøå"12:00
zibristygia: a combination of both btw, Ångström :)12:02
Stygiazibri, Hah, fair enough.12:02
Stygiazibri, So that'd be... Norwegian or Icelandic, then.12:02
StygiaOnce again I'm guessing icelandic, AFAIK the Norwegians.12:02
Stygiazibri, Huh. Swedes use Å? Weird. :P12:02
zibrihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Jonas_Ångström :)12:03
seebsI should take more vacations, I came back to find that apparently someone finally figured out the mysterious and sporadic failures of PSEUDO_UNLOAD to work on some systems. Probably.12:03
Stygiazibri, Oh I believe you, I just thought Æ Ø Å was for us Danes and the Norwegians.12:03
seebs... Of course, now I don't know why it ever *did* work.12:03
StygiaAnd then I thought that the Swedish used Â Ô and Ã12:03
StygiaOr something like that. :P12:04
zibristygia: heh, the link was more "this guy is cool"12:04
zibristygia: heh, that looks more like charset issues ;)12:04
Stygiazibri, Ah cool, I thought he was a CPAN contributer. :P12:04
StygiaBut then, AFAIK, I do remember correctly - Modern swedes probably don't use Å.12:05
zibriuhm. yeah we do :)12:05
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Stygiazibri, Huh alright.12:06
zibrior maybe i'm just not modern enough :(12:06
Stygiazibri, Well fair enough! I just thought you used the variants with dots and lines and such, that's what I normally see in Swedish writings. :)12:06
Stygiazibri, But I'm thinking you as a Swede probably know better. :P12:07
StygiaI'd hope so anyway.12:08
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vicky_How to add meta-oe to yocto?13:00
vicky_Anyone succedded before?13:01
cfo215vicky_, did you add it to your bblayers.conf?13:02
vicky_I have a question. Will meta-oeconflict the meta of yocto ?13:02
vicky_yes i added13:02
vicky_but i am facing a parse error of " No receipe for busybox"13:02
Crofton|workit shouldn't13:03
vicky_I afraid of my image will corrupt because  of this?13:03
cfo215try changing the order in bblayers.conf13:03
erenvicky_: I had the same issue13:03
Crofton|workerbo, how did you fix it?13:03
erenI added meta-oe after poky layer definitions and got that error13:04
bluelightningvicky_: you need to match the branch of meta-oe to the branch of poky/OE-Core you are using13:04
cfo215oh, yeah, forgot about that gotcha... it should be fresh in my memory.13:04
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Crofton|workI was wondering, since I think we have fixed the bbappend in master13:05
erenwhat's the state of meta-raspberrypi btw? Has anyone tried that13:06
vicky_Will it affect of my compiled image?13:06
vicky_should i recompile again?13:07
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zibrihum... utils.bbclass' create_wrapper function creates an implicit bash dependency. i don't think that's intended. :-(13:10
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RPzibri: isn't that only used on the build system binaries?13:22
cfo215I need a working toolchain that supports Qt 4.x on a beaglebone black, anyone have any recommendations?13:23
Stygiazibri, hmm. You said that you also have the issue with mails timing out due you our ISP's being idiotic. I'm using a VPN in the UK and I still have the same issue. How on earth do you actually submit patches?13:23
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zibrirp: we have an issue where depending on flex causes "Can't install flex-2.5.37-r0@mipsel_nf: no package provides /bin/bash" from smart13:24
zibriflex is pulled in to target by depending on libpam it seems :/13:25
zibristygia: either my mailing via a relay host (the isps usually provide these) or mailing from somewhere without this restriction.13:26
RPzibri: does the target system need the wrapper?13:26
RPusually its only for native13:26
zibrinot sure. it sets $M4 to ${bindir}/m4, i suspect not13:27
bluelightningvicky_: shouldn't be needed13:27
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cfo215also having problems with 'lld' command: http://pastebin.com/Lf2xhCPt when trying to examine executable.13:29
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RPzibri: I'd suggest we make it native only14:09
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RPnative and nativesdk14:09
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ant_workRP:  any better way to install -klcc-cross besides -gcc-cross?  http://tinyurl.com/o3wew4b14:13
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Stygiazibri, Hey did you reply to me earlier? I fear my client timed out or something because there's a huge gap in talk on all channels.14:20
RPant_work: what is wrong atm?14:20
ant_workiirc there is an hardcoded path to sysroot in the package14:22
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ant_workwell, sorry, there isn't any package14:22
ant_workit is just installed in sysroot14:23
ant_workas build dependency14:23
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zibri15:26:13 < zibri> stygia: either my mailing via a relay host (the isps usually provide these) or mailing from somewhere without this restriction.14:25
zibristygia: --^14:25
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Stygiazibri, Ah damn, nope I didn't get that. Suppose I could disconnect before I switch around between VPN's, heh.14:26
ant_workRP: basically any recipe inheriting klibc.bbclass -> DEPENDS =+ "klcc-cross"14:26
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ant_workRP: feel free to abuse of the recipe to squash out unforgivable bugs like the sstate symlinks last time ;)14:27
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Stygiazibri, And hmm right, I'm trying to set that up with my mail provider, but no luck... and seems like nobody replies to me at #postfix, #debian, #linux or really anywhere. I was afraid I'd been hellbanned or something.14:35
StygiaI don't think I'm nearly annoying enough to warrant that, though. I hope.14:35
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erenStygia: what's the problem with mails?14:37
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erenI've set up a few generic mail servers, maybe I could help14:38
Stygiaeren, Well. My ISP blocks port 25. I am trying to set up a relayhost with my mail provider, but it complains about TLS, although the main.cf file for postfix shows it as enabled and lists pem and cert files.14:38
Stygiaeren, That'd be awesome. This is preventing me from posting patches. :/14:38
StygiaBasically, I'm using postfix. git send-email ends up timing out, that's what I see in postqueue -p14:38
StygiaSo I tried to set relayhost = [mail.provider.com]:587 and list the login info in /etc/ postfix/relay_passwd as per several tutorials online.14:39
StygiaBut postqueue -p just shows "SASL authentication failed; server mail.PROVIDER.com[] said: 538 auth not available without TLS "14:40
Stygialdd on /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd shows it links to ssl and crypto, so it's compiled in.14:40
StygiaConfig: http://pastebin.com/E13m9ayy, mail.log: http://pastebin.com/9fHasB2i, mail.info: http://pastebin.com/e4qU27RA, syslog: http://pastebin.com/PgLVbPg1(mail.err has nothing relevant - only my syntax errors)14:41
erenStygia: oh, why do you need a mail server in the first place if you have a mail account from another provider?14:41
Stygiaeren, How do you mean? I'm not trying to set up a server.14:41
Stygiaeren, I just want to send emails with git send-email. Using postfix, I get errors. So as far as I could read I need to use a relay.14:41
erenStygia: git send-email has option for setting up smtp account14:42
Stygiaeren, If I'm not making sense I probably misunderstood something somewhere.14:42
erenStygia: http://morefedora.blogspot.de/2009/02/configuring-git-send-email-to-use-gmail.html14:43
erenStygia: change the smtp server information with your provider14:43
erenyou probably know it14:43
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erenwhen you set git configuration, git send-email will ask your password to log into your smtp server14:43
erenin this case, your mail account14:43
erensince you have "mail.provider.com", git send-mail will connect to your provider and send it :)14:44
erenyou do not need a mail server to relay mails14:44
Stygiaeren, Hah. Well... that works. :)14:48
Stygiaeren, Awesome. I was doing something wrong all along, then.14:48
StygiaThere's a patch for you all!14:48
StygiaAnd heh...14:49
StygiaPatch spam incoming.14:49
erenStygia: no problem :)14:50
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cristianiorgaYPTM: Cristian joined15:00
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nitinkYPTM: nitin is on the bridge15:01
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jmdelos_YPTM: polk is here15:01
sgw_YPTM: We are about to start the Yocto Project Techincal Meeting (YPTM), this call is open to all15:02
sgw_Dial-in number: 1.972.995.777715:02
sgw_Participant passcode:   4200107815:02
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adamianadamian is here15:02
sgw_If you have any issues feel free to join the call, this does not prevent other discussion here15:02
belenYPTM: belen joined15:02
cristianacristiana is here15:02
davestYPTM: davest on the call15:02
CorneliuYPTM: Corneliu joined15:02
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JefroYPTM: Jefro here15:02
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sgw_YPTM: Saul is on15:03
laurYPTM: LaurentiuP joined15:03
bluelightning_YPTM: Paul Eggleton joined15:03
Song_LiuYPTM: Welcome to the technical meeting. Please let me know who's on the bridge15:03
tomz2YPTM: Tom Z here15:03
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scottrifYPTM: Scott Rifenbark is on the call.15:03
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RPYPTM: Richard is on the call15:03
halsteadYPTM: Michael here.15:03
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Zagor_YPTM: Björn is on the call15:03
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jzhang-laptopYPTM: jzhang's on15:03
pabigotYPTM: pabigot listening in15:03
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CorneliuYPTM: Corneliu joined15:04
pabigotYPTM: pabigot is Peter Bigot ; t is silent (french)15:04
* simar YPTM: is on the call15:04
BSDCatYPTM: Matthew joined15:04
cristianaCristiana on the call15:04
zeddiiYPTM: Bruce is on the call.15:05
Song_LiuYPTM: Any opens?15:05
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RPSomeone's small child has an open?15:06
BSDCatsorry, thought I'd already muted15:06
bluelightningwe do welcome all contributions ;)15:06
RPBSDCat: (there was a ;-) implied there btw)15:06
RPin case that wasn't clear15:06
mihaihm, YP on Lego15:07
AlexGmihai: :))15:07
erenYPTM: Eren is here15:07
AlexGYPTM: 1.5 M4_rc2 qa report is not ready yet, but the current status can be found on https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/1.5_QA_Status15:08
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ereninterference? :)15:09
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sgw_YPTM: Please mute your phones15:09
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zeddiimaybe the alien *is* talking!15:11
Crofton|workprobably the guy at the NSA forgot to mute15:12
* zeddii nods15:12
mihaiusing advanced audio compression15:12
erenany more information about security layer and related things?15:15
davestYPTM: I suspect someone *is* trying to talk but it's coming out garbled15:17
davestYPTM: probably a soft phone clipping packets like crazy15:17
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sgw_seebs: you back?15:36
halsteadRP, An improvement of 750x. Nice!15:36
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seebsSomewhat back. Although the insomnia bug bit, so I'm pretty useless today.15:37
seebsI did notice that someone finally found that !@#*!# pseudo bug.15:37
sgw_seebs: Ok, there was a patch to pseudo offered up just after you left.15:38
sgw_seebs: yes that's the one, it's pending your review.15:38
seebsOh, hey. I betcha that's pabigot, who's in-channel.15:38
sgw_seebs: yup15:38
pabigotyep.  looking forward to the official patch ;-)15:38
seebsI was just writing a response to it. Long-story short: I think we should adopt the given patch for now, and I am waffling as to what to do in the longer-term.15:38
rburtonhooray pabigot15:39
seebsThere is an interesting theoretical question.15:39
seebsOh, and pabigot, this makes you I think the second person ever to find a bug in pseudo before I found it. :)15:39
seebs(Curious coincidence: You're "Peter A.", I'm "A. Peter". And computers and such being what they are, at least some computers record my name as "Peter A."15:40
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seebs... aaand it appears that my work laptop has rejected the notion of network access. So I can't actually cause that message to be sent.15:43
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kergothgah, why are my -natives rebuilding, noooo15:45
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seebsHuh. I managed to update the bug, but the outgoing email got et.15:45
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Song_LiuYPTM: thank you all for joining the call. Have a nice day/evening!15:46
seebskergoth: I have had great results from saying "stop it bitbake go home you are drunk". I mean, it doesn't really help, but it makes me feel better.15:46
bluelightningkergoth: bitbake-diffsigs -t ...15:46
seebsfray, if you have access to the WR network, please pass on that I don't. I expect to get that fixed eventually...15:47
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zibristygia: hum... a lot of the recipes you posted are core actually :/16:00
zibri(i'm assuming you're emil; right?)16:01
Stygiazibri, Correct.16:03
Stygiazibri, And hmm right. But hey, I have plenty that aren't.16:03
Stygiazibri, And that other guy said I can use corelist to check from now on... so I will.16:03
Stygiazibri, Heh I hope... I have 100+ recipes. :P16:03
StygiaThey can't all be core. Or even mostly.16:03
zibrithat other guy is me :)16:03
StygiaHah, alright.16:03
StygiaWell alright. No more patches without corelist! Don't worry.16:04
zibrii would also recommend looking at sending your patches as a series of patches.16:04
StygiaMaybe I screw up but at least I try to learn when I do.16:04
Stygiazibri, How'd you mean?16:04
Stygiazibri, Maybe I should just go read some docs on git, heh.. :)16:04
zibristygia: heh... everybody makes mistakes :)16:04
zibristygia: you can see other patches being sent as e.g. "[PATCH 12/20] ..."16:05
zibriwhere each patch in the series belongs to the same thread for mail clients supporting that16:05
Stygiazibri, Aah. So that's what I do to send a serious, just add X/total?16:05
Stygiazibri, AFK for a bit, sloppy burger.16:06
zibriactually git format-patch supports that, and makes sure to set the correct mail headers as well16:06
bluelightning(and by extension, git send-email as well)16:06
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rburtonseebs: ah that good old "how can this fail?" -> "how can this work?!" transform16:16
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seebsMy favorite is when, the moment I *understand* why the code can't ever work, it stops working even in cases previously known to work.16:17
rburtonseveral options then: 1) drinking 2) tableflip 3) go home, try again tomorrow16:18
seebsApropos of nothing in particular, I note that it appears that the VPN on my work laptop has never been set up correctly, and that the reason I can't access anything is that it's never worked. I don't think I've touched that config in maybe six months except to update passwords when they expire.16:18
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lpapphi, is it possible with opkg to have signed packages?16:30
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fraynot as far as I know16:31
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frayRPM is the only packaging format that YP supports that has signed package capabilities16:31
lpapphmm, that is bad for secure embedded projects.16:34
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lpappoh, btw, debian does not support signing through _foo16:34
lpappdoes support*16:34
lpappbut not more conveniently than that.16:35
lpapplike we did for Harmattan.16:35
bluelightningI seem to recall that opkg does have some kind of GPG support16:35
bluelightningI have never used it though16:35
lpappI think security is inevitable nowadays.16:35
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lpappif opkg does not support it, it is out of the question with people secure embedded needs.16:35
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lpappcorrect refers to?16:36
bluelightningpackage-level security is only relevant if you actually use packages in your target system16:36
lpappsure, we do.16:36
bluelightningwhich many don't16:36
lpapperm, I would argue about that16:36
lpapphow else would you ship software update?16:36
lpappreflashing everything?16:36
rburtonbasically, yes16:36
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lpappnow that is which "many don't"16:37
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rburtonand many do. there are two approaches. neither is "right".16:37
lpappI do not see the "many do"16:37
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JaMalpapp: something like http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/opkg-devel/2008-May/000063.html ?16:38
fraythe customers I am familiar with primarily reflash images for upgrades.. some do packages, but it's still fairly rare.  Those that do packages (and need them signed) almost always use RPM16:38
lpappin fact all my app store stuff etc on the phones update the software at hand, not the whole device firmware.16:38
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lpappupgrading the firmware when you do not actually touch the firmware, just an end software... well, that is bizarr.16:38
rburtonlpapp: its just a different use case, nothing to argue over16:38
frayNumber of devices - big, number of devices that do upgrades - small, number of devices that do 'package' or 'file' upgrades - miniscule16:38
lpappJaMa: yeah, that, or X50916:39
lpappPKCS, etc16:39
lpapplocal signature, and all those.16:39
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lpapprburton: different use case?16:39
lpappwe are discussing one use case.16:39
lpappupdating a software, not a firmware.16:39
lpappJaMa: docs?16:41
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rburtonJaMa: ha, you'd think i'd remember that work16:42
lpappJaMa: http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/2013-April/071129.html16:42
lpappno one seems to care about the changes. :(16:42
JaMaPaul Barker maintains opkg now16:43
JaMatry asking him16:43
lpappdoes he use irc?16:43
JaMayou can use ML (opkg-devel@googlegroups.com) maybe someone else will reply or be also interested in it16:44
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lpappwhat would you say if someone asked why it is worth switching to dylan from denzil and whether it is worth it at all? Are there significant improvements in dylan other than few recipe updates?16:47
lpappI heard that there minor buildsystem performance improvements, but nothing major.16:48
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bluelightningsystemd integration and read-only-rootfs enhancements spring to mind16:52
lpappwhat is read-only-rootfs enchancements?16:53
lpappalso, why is systemd a significant improvement?16:53
bluelightningwell, assuming you care about systemd that is16:56
lpappI do not.16:56
lpappwhat is good about systemd?16:56
bluelightningit's now possible to boot with your rootfs mounted read-only, previously that wasn't supported out of the box16:56
bluelightningagain, something dependent on your use case16:57
lpappwhat do you mean it was not supported out of the box... we have been using ro for ages with denzil16:57
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bluelightningwe made quite a number of changes to allow postinstall scripts to run during do_rootfs where previously they would have to run on first boot16:58
rburtonin a minimal build it may have worked previously, not sato will work with a ro rootfs16:59
bluelightninglpapp: good for you, but for a lot of the cases we tested, things just broke because they assumed it was OK to write to places in the rootfs17:00
lpappright, so nothing for us in there.17:00
lpappthen it is probably not worth switching to dylan altogether.17:00
lpappI mean I do not see huge benefits for us.17:01
bluelightninglpapp: being on something currently maintained isn't of value to you?17:01
lpappbluelightning: is not.17:01
bluelightningok then17:01
lpappin fact it is more dangereous as it is not stable.17:02
lpappnot as stable as an older version.17:02
bluelightningthat is simply untrue17:02
lpappsure, it is true.17:02
bluelightningI strongly disagree17:03
lpappthat does not make the fact untrue.17:04
bluelightningthat you assert it does not make it true either17:04
lpappsure, it does.17:04
lpappI believe we have tested our software more than you with this stack.17:04
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bluelightningthe regular tests we perform coupled with the fact that many users are able to use dylan as a base for their current development is indicative enough to me that it is stable17:07
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lpappI fail to see how many unrelated users to us should be a factor for our testing and results.17:07
lpappagain, you are trying to comment out of your scope.17:08
bluelightningif you want anecdotal evidence, it exists17:08
lpappjust like I would not comment for others.17:08
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bluelightningif you care not for it, by all means continue not to care17:08
BSDCatlpapp: sure you do17:08
lpappcorrect, I do not care about unrelated stuff.17:08
erenwhat's the typical use of ro rootfs? The first one seems to "just boot and never write" so that the flash/cf/card whatever medium lasts longer?17:09
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fraydemos, systems that you want to boot and "refresh from blank" on reboot..17:10
fraystable 'upgrade' system images.. and and you said.. keep destructive media from dieing17:10
Jefroro rootfs is common in embedded systems that need to be precisely the same at every new boot17:11
fray(RO is often faster to boot.. not always though)17:11
lpapperen: we use that for safety.17:11
lpapperen: end users cannot mess up17:11
mr_scienceand keep users from mucking things up...17:11
lpapperen: or we cannot mess up either for demos.17:11
lpapperen: or for systems which are simply not meant to be writable.17:11
fraya lot of systems I've worked on have a large flash (set RO at boot).. with a specialized / serial / protected write mechanism for user data, settigns, etc..  but any temp files, etc should be wiped at power off17:12
lpappI like the idea except when it comes to updating software on the fly.17:12
fraymany of the systems I'm familiar with are dual partition..  bootloader remembers that last booted partition..17:13
frayand you field upgrade the "other" partition, from the one you have booted.. then switch17:13
lpappI think what would be interesting is semi-ro rootfs.17:14
lpappi.e. the vendor can update it.17:14
erenfray: good way to update the system17:14
frayRO boot / RW app partition isn't that unusual in many places either17:14
fraythat way if the app partition dies.. they can just clear it and the device keeps working17:14
frayit's 'inconvienent' but hopefully prevents a brick17:15
lpappI am not sure that is a good way17:15
lpappthat still does not protect against vendor privileges and caps issues.17:15
lpappI mean a user can just upgrade the software than on the writable.17:15
lpappI would rather see one ro rootfs which is updatable by the vendor; hint, security mechanism, but not selinux.17:15
frayRW is from the system perspective.. the user can -never- log into the device w/o directly hacking it.. then all bets are off anyway17:16
lpappnow, that is called poor security17:16
lpappand exactly the reason behind basics rooting, like how the kernel.org was compromised.17:17
frayconsumer devices are more likely to have a RW.. since the life span of the device is much more limited (couple of years planned life) vs automotive which is almost always RO w/ monitoring settings, data store and apps.. (expected life is 17-20 years)17:17
frayif I hand someone with the ability and tools to hack a device, I don't care how security it is.. it'll fall..17:17
lpappuser can "never" log into the device....17:18
lpapp1) It is easy to hack17:18
fraythe question is how do you prevent un-intended intrusions, how do you detect customer intrusions and do the 'right' thing.. (invalidate support, invalidate specific functionality, etc..)17:18
lpapp2) Even if it was not, it is easy to install apps from app store, website, etc.17:18
lpappfray: by a security framework.17:18
lpappwhat we did for Harmattan, for instance.17:19
lpappswapping partitions will not increase the complexity for intrusion, unfortunately.17:20
lpappit still remains the same complexity, how to defend that partition.17:20
frayswapping partitions has nothing to do w/ security..17:20
frayit has to do with field upgrade reliability..17:20
frayif one partition is mangled, you have another to fall back to17:20
lpappwell, that is the whole point of rootfs for many.17:20
lpappsafety and security.17:20
frayRO is only a piece of the reliability, safety, security, etc..  you have to design the system as a whole to meet the objectives you have..17:21
frayif the device is never internet connected, and isn't life critical.. then it can horribly insecure and it doesn't matter..17:21
lpappand I am saying, wapping will not help there much.17:21
frayif the device has a 17-20 year projected life span, you need to make explicit hardware and software designs to meet that objective..17:21
frayand there are a huge range of devices between that17:21
lpappif it was 2010-2011, I would say libsmack could be integrated into some recipes-security or so17:22
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waltersanyone built successfully from a Fedora 19 host?  I have someone who's using it as a host, and the rpmbuild in the sysroot is segfaulting building gcc-native looks like: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/36792/13782287/17:23
lpappwalters: master?17:24
lpappgcc 4.8?17:24
walterslpapp: dylan17:24
lpappit was fixed for arch a while ago in master... unfortunately was not released.17:24
walterslpapp: yeah gcc 4.8 on the host17:24
lpappthere you go17:24
lpappbackport the patch or use master17:24
waltersmaster of...oe-core?  gcc?17:24
frayif I had to guess, something is wrong w/ the sse2 optimized strlen.. but I'd need to actually see the code that failed..17:25
lpappfray: already solved issue. :-)17:25
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frayI'm not sure I have dylan easily avaialble17:25
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fraythe line is question:17:26
fray                length += strlen(*av++) + 1;17:26
fray           const char ** av = (*p).argv;17:26
fray            while (count--) {17:26
fray                /* add one for null termination */17:26
fray                length += strlen(*av++) + 1;17:26
fraythats the whole code block..17:26
frayanyway.. it does look glibc related to me17:26
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lpappfray: if you wanna think about a resolved issue like that, please use pastebin, like paste.kde.org.17:27
Jasperwalters, can you point me to an upstream bug so I can CC?17:27
walterslpapp: hmm...which recipe did the patch modify?17:29
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lpappwalters: I would also google ... ;-)17:30
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lpappwalters: http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/poky/commit/?h=dylan&id=950f2e453a2bd31764e99eb09154768e0c5049a417:31
lpappmade it for you.17:31
waltersi found that when searching the git log, but that seemed to be about gcc building gcc17:31
lpappwalters: yes, which is what you need.17:32
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waltersnot sure how i would have known that -faggressive-loop-optimizations was also the source of the miscompiled rpmbuild code just from that17:32
lpappI would suggest master for F1917:32
lpappit is unsupported17:32
lpappand fixes might go in, but dylan was not a that great release for unsupported distributions.17:32
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* lpapp wonders why this continuously recurring issues are not among the known issues for the given platform17:33
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zibrirp: btw, i've made a patch for the flex do_install_append, just verifying it... will send it tomorrow. hope i understood you correctly :)17:56
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JaMarburton: Re: x11vnc: Add PACKAGECONFIG for xfixes, xinerama, xrandr and xdamage, making them enabled by default is enough, right?18:26
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rburtonJaMa: yeah, although a vnc server without fixes+damage is a suboptimal server18:49
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JaMarburton: ok18:50
JaMafixed in branch18:51
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JaMarburton: script only compares RDEPENDS in package built after world and in clean tmpdir18:55
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JaMarburton: so if it was showing autoenabled connman dependency it had to be linking with something provided by connman package18:56
rburtonbut the .pc doesn't link against anything...18:56
JaMarburton: hmm looks like I've added connman just for completeness after reading configure.ac18:57
JaMaWARN: packages/armv5te-oe-linux-gnueabi/telepathy-mission-control/telepathy-mission-control/latest lost dependency on  libnmglib upower18:58
rburtonmakes sense18:58
rburtonoddly upstream fixed this today18:59
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Jasperso why do you guys use rpm5?19:01
* JaMa doesn't19:01
rburtonJasper: last time i asked that the response was "i think it had to do with recommends, that rpm4 didn't/doesn't support"19:01
rburtonJasper: then again that was an idle curiousity because i also don't use rpm19:01
Jaspernothing else in the world uses rpm5 though19:02
Jasperlpapp, btw, -O0 didn't fix the rpmbuild crash19:02
Jasperrpm5 is effectively unmaintained.19:04
bluelightningJasper: that is not true, jbj and others are maintaining it19:04
JasperI haven't seen jbj do anything in years, though.19:04
lpappJasper: not sure what you mean.19:07
Jasperlpapp, after I recompiled rpmbuild with -O0, it still segfaulted when trying to run somewhere19:07
lpappJasper: sorry, but why are you telling this to me?19:08
waltersJasper: we could theoretically switch to dpkg; in the end it's just temporary data that gets put into an ostree repo, the packages are discarded19:08
Jasperlpapp, because I thought you were the one telling walters about the gcc bug above19:08
Jasperyeah, I suppose that works19:08
lpappJasper: yes, apply the patch or use master.19:09
Jasperlpapp, but I did -O0 -- shouldn't that also stop it from applying the broken optimization?19:09
lpappI have no idea what -O0 means in this context.19:10
lpappwhy don't you just follow the recommendation19:10
rburtonwalters: use opkg, its the one true way ;)19:10
seebsCompiler options won't retroactively change the C library; if you're linking against a host C library which has a bug you can trigger, changing compiler options will rarely affect that.19:11
rburtonwalters: (dpkg is the least maintained backend, but considering you don't actually use packages on the target, why do you care?)19:11
JasperWe care because I can't manage to compile yocto -- rpmbuild keeps segfaulting.19:11
rburtonthat's a good reason!19:12
lpappJasper: I think the first thing to do is follow suggestions.19:12
JasperApparently it was due to a bug in gcc 4.8, but even when I compile rpmbuild with -O0, it still happens.19:12
Jasperlpapp, walters suggested to me to use -O019:12
JasperThat's the suggestion I followed. What suggestion do you have?19:12
lpappwhat I wrote to him to do. :)19:12
lpappif that does not solve either, you may need more changes from master.19:13
Jasperlpapp, but why should that matter if I'm compiling rpmbuild with -O0?19:13
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lpappArch is pioneer in making other ancient distros' life easier at upgrade.19:13
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lpappJasper: do not ask, just do. :)19:13
lpappJasper: smarter people than us already went through this...19:14
Jasperlpapp, OK, so how do I do?19:14
lpappas I wrote several times, you can apply it or use master.19:14
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Jaspermaster of what? poky?19:14
lpappas I wrote that, too, yes.19:15
JasperKeep in mind I'm not using poky from upstream, I'm using walters's fork of it.19:15
lpappwell good luck with that, then.19:15
lpappand ask walters about issues.19:16
JasperI have been.19:16
lpappno, you were telling me stuff19:16
lpappdo not tell me about a fork. :D19:16
lpappas I have no idea what that contains, etc.19:16
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Jasperlpapp, https://github.com/cgwalters/poky19:17
Jasperactually, should probably point you to the correct branch: https://github.com/cgwalters/poky/tree/gnomeostree-3.10-dylan19:17
lpappJasper: why are you sending this to me when I asked not to?19:17
rburtonwalters: dylan? pah.  it's all about dora now, keep up!19:18
waltersJasper: just for fun we could backport that patch...but i don't believe it will help19:18
rburtonwalters: switch to opkg, you'll get faster builds19:19
rburton(as well as it not segfaulting)19:19
lpapprpm does not segfault for me.19:20
rburtonhm, actually, i think you still need to build rpm then, for the dep tools19:20
lpapp(and likely arch is even newer than F19)19:20
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otavioRP:  yocot-1.4.2 <= typo in the tag19:26
otaviobluelightning: ^19:26
sgw_pidge: ^^19:26
otaviomario-goulart: thx by warn us :) sgw_ mario-goulart noticed and pinged me about it19:27
mranostayheh at least you can delete tags :)19:27
sgw_thanks guys!19:27
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eren`JaMa: yeah, I saw the e-mail :)19:29
eren`oh, gotta go19:31
eren`see you tomorrow!19:31
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waltersfray, lpapp: I think we found it: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/296639619:47
waltersrburton: unfortunately rebasing is quite painful for me because of the highly custom deployment backend19:48
walterson the positive side, i'm not shipping lots of little untested blobs with shell scripts run as root attached to client machines19:48
frayI'm really curious if that truely is undefined behavior19:51
otaviowalters: it'd be good if it could be a separated layer instead of a fork19:54
otaviowalters: so it'd allow for easy reuse of code and updating against new Yocto  releases19:54
waltersotavio: i know, i'd love to be there19:54
frayI'm still thinking this is a gcc bug19:56
frayshould be an easy enough reproducer19:56
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seebsSince when is underflowing an unsigned integer undefined behavior? *signed* can blow up on overflow, but unsigned are pretty safe.20:07
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seebsIf count has an integer type, and it's starting out non-negative, "while (count--) {...}" should execute {...} count times, and leave count set to -1 (if signed) or FOO_MAX (if unsigned). Pretty sure that's well-defined.20:10
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erenit seems like we have an UTF-8 problem in mailman :(20:17
erenmy fullname is not displayed correctly on the list archives20:17
lpappwalters: you are using a fork...20:21
lpappwalters: not sure anyone can comment much on it in here.20:21
lpapperen: use ascii like me.20:21
lpappthe life has proven easier that way.20:22
lpappfor me, at least.20:22
erenlpapp: yocto archives are ok, there is a problem with oe lists20:23
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lpapperen: you will have more problems here and there in the internet world, I am sure.20:25
erenlpapp: I am not quite sure abotu that :)20:26
lpappyou are just having issues with a simple mailing list.20:27
lpappthere are a lot more complex scenarios out there.20:27
erenlpapp: for example?20:27
halsteadsgw_, pidge Going to start taking things offline now.20:28
Jasperwalters, so, I'm wrong. Unsigned integer underflow is fully defined.20:28
lpapperen: tons of sites.20:28
waltersJasper: yeah, i was reading about that too20:28
lpapperen: anyway, why do you bother that much with it? It is not a biggie.20:29
sgw_halstead: perfect timing, I just finished a download!20:29
* sgw_ -> Everyone: Autobuilder, Mail, Downloads and Web services for the Yocto Project is going down for an hour or so, longer for the AutoBuilders.20:30
sgw_halstead: all yours!20:31
halsteadsgw_, Thanks.20:31
Jasperwalters, I ran ostbuild again and it's not segfaulting anymore. Guess I got a lucky break/20:32
lpappsgw_: thanks.20:32
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waltersJasper: hmm.20:35
JasperWARNING: Failed to fetch URL http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bjam/boost_1_53_0.tar.bz2, attempting MIRRORS if available20:35
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Jasperseems "bjam" disappeared off the internet20:36
mranostayJasper: i thought nothing disappears from the nets20:36
Jasperi love how we have three build tools building each other now20:37
Jasperostbuild runs bitbake runs bjam20:37
walterssomehow in a chain of elaborate wrappers for make, value is generated20:37
mranostayJasper: the big bang of build tools20:38
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frayheh value.. do you work for corporate marketing?  :)20:40
sgw_Jasper: any chance you have it in a local downloads?  You managed to hit just as we took our mirror offline for an hour or so.20:41
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halsteadmranostay, The move took longer than expected because the vlan setup changed between the racks and I needed to reconfigure the switches.23:44
mranostayabelloni: going to ELC?23:52
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abelloniI'm not presenting anything though23:56
mranostayndec: why are there two of you on G+? :)23:56
abellonithere were already enough people from Free Electrons talking ;)23:56
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abelloniI was quite disappointed to see that it is only two days this year23:59

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