Saturday, 2013-08-03

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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #73 of minnow-lsb is complete: Failure [failed Building Images] Build details are at
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lpappwhat language is webhob written in?07:27
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rburtonlpapp: python/django iirc07:55
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lpappbut is it actually handy that end users will need to run a local webserver?07:57
RPlpapp: that is easy enough to do from python07:58
lpappwell, I have spent 3 full working days to do.08:01
lpappit would be a pity if end users had to go through the same trouble...08:02
lpappthis brings me to the idea of a Qt frontend, really.08:02
lpappwhich you just run and it works.08:02
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JaMamy buildservers don't have any Qt or x11 installed, local webserver sounds like less bloat to me08:05
lpappwhat does it mean meta-oe layer?08:05
lpappexcept that many people do not use buildservers.08:05
RPlpapp: and many people do08:05
lpappwell, the most people do not use to be fair.08:05
RPlpapp: how many users have you talked to?08:06
* JaMa is using minimalistic chroot even on his desktop machine08:06
lpappactually, they could already use ssh.08:06
lpappsince server guys are used to it, anyway.08:06
lpappa frontend is a means for end users on local PC in my book.08:07
lpappgtk is non-crossplatform.08:07
lpappwebserver is a hassle for such users08:07
JaMayou cannot run qt frontend in GNU screen on server :)08:07
lpappand for those people, I believe, qt frontend I will work on, is the best solution.08:07
lpappJaMa: have you read what I wrote?08:07
lpapp1) yes, you can.08:08
lpapp2) I mentioned ssh.08:08
JaMano intentionally I'm not reading anything you're writting08:08
RPlpapp: Lets just say that there has been quite a lot of work gone into figuring out what the userbase actually wants/needs through surveys, interviews and so on08:08
lpappJaMa: then intentionally do not reply. :)08:08
lpappRP: let us just say, many people use local PCs.08:08
JaMahave you seen any "lpapp:" in my messages? I'm not talking to you, I'm just supporting RP's view08:09
RPlpapp: Have you read what *I* wrote? ;-)08:09
lpappand for those, as I already mentioned, qt seems to be the best solution.08:09
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lpappRP: yes08:09
* lpapp really fails to see why qt could not be run over screen08:10
lpappthat is just technically incorrect.08:10
RPlpapp: for you, qt is perhaps seemingly the best solution, for the whole user base it was not found to be08:10
lpappRP: err... no.08:10
RPlpapp: we did actual research for that and there are details in the mailing list archives08:10
lpappRP: as I already said, I was primarily talking about local PC builds.08:10
RPlpapp: our surveys found something different?08:10
* JaMa off08:11
RPlpapp: You're suggesting I don't understand the survey results? :)08:11
lpappRP: yes08:11
lpappthere is an article somewhere how bad surveys are.08:11
lpappand why they are misleading.08:11
lpappalso, show me the survey, please.08:12
lpappand the mailing list thread.08:12
RPlpapp: its all in the mailing list archives08:12
lpappshow or did not happen. :)08:12
RPlpapp: I'm not interested in being told I can't read or understand things ;-)08:13
lpappRP: oh, in that case "we also made a big survey, we just cannot prove, blabla"08:13
lpappit is getting unauthentic without proving when being asked for details.08:13
RPlpapp: I'm just not interested in taking this discussion further since I think its pointless08:14
lpappright, so I just made a survey08:14
lpappa few people any everyone would prefer qt.08:14
RPlpapp: congratulations. Survey sample of one? :)08:15
lpappI am not a native speaker.08:15
lpappbut a few people definitely do not mean one in English.08:15
lpappsince you cannot back your statement, I am not in a position to conclude out of it.08:16
RPlpapp: has details of some of the work that went into it and links to user testing and so on08:17
lpappshow me the end result of the survey, and the survey text itself, please.08:18
lpapp1) mailing list08:18
lpapp2) a doc file08:18
Bagderwhy should anyone work on showing you that?08:26
Bagderyou'll just flame on anyway08:26
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lpappBagder: please be civil.08:30
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rburtonlpapp: why are you so concerned that other people are writing a webhob? if you think a qt UI is best, you are free to write one.08:32
rburtonlpapp: end of story.08:33
lpapprburton: I cannot be interested in the details of a claim?08:33
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lpappof course, I will write my Qt frontend, but unlike some other people I listen to others, and why they have that opinion.08:34
lpappit is not like you can throw "random" worlds at the company either without backing your statement.08:35
lpappit seems to be like the "overdiscussed gerrit", when I tried to look for information for quite a long while, and turned out I just wasted a lot of time since there was no such a discussion at all in public.08:36
rburtonlpapp: if you'r really interested in teh webhob research, a minute with google should find it08:37
rburtonnow i'm off to the library with my daughter08:37
lpappyes, sure, I need to back others, and not them themselves, sigh.08:40
lpappnot to mention this has been told for the gerrit stuff as well for which I was looking for hours (!) without any result.08:41
rburtontop hit on google for "webhob user interviews"08:41
RPand linked from the page I mentioned08:42
* RP shrugs08:42
lpappoh, so it is not a mailing list08:44
lpappand I was looking on the mailing list.08:44
lpappso much for correct information ....08:44
lpappalso, it is a webhob user feedback, not generic ui preference survey!08:46
lpappit is a vastly different thing.08:46
lpappuser interface*08:46
lpapp8 interviews ... :-) That is a small number, at large.08:47
lpappand the original survey is nowhere.08:47
lpappso, yes, I could do a Qt user interface feedback, and would probably get positive feedback from Qt users.08:49
lpappanyway, it shows the original claim incorrect to me.08:50
lpappso what does it mean meta-oe layer? Wasn't the meta layer supposed to be the oe-core layer? There is a non oe-core oe layer?08:52
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RPlpapp: meta-oe = meta-openembedded09:16
lpappso non oe-core oe layer09:17
lpappis it possible to put fltk in oe-core?09:18
RPlpapp: there were multiple stages and interviews in the webhob process. Those look like some of the later ones, I'm not sure offhand where the earlier ones are archives or if they're online09:18
RPlpapp: You haven't given me much incentive to go and find the information and I'm not sure it would make much difference to you even if I did. There was discussion at each stage on the mailing list about the process.09:19
RPthe question would be why is fltk needed in oe-core and why is it not usable from meta-oe09:19
* RP -> afk09:20
lpappbecause it is a core embedded graphics stuff?09:20
lpappwell, you can try to defend yourself by proving yourself would not make a difference for a technical discussion.09:20
lpappit looks unreasonable to me, but it is your choice to take.09:20
lpappeven gnome is in oe09:21
lpappand fltk is way less headless09:21
lpappmailing list patch is the best way for such proposals?09:26
lpappor a separate discussion thread?09:27
lpappI would not like to clone yet another full layer just for one single package.09:27
lpappand I think fltk is also common on embedded.09:27
JaMamoving gnome to separate layer was also proposed few times09:27
lpappthat would make sense as it is a monster09:28
lpappfltk is not however.09:28
lpappit is probably the most lightweight embedded opengl empowered ui toolkit out there I know.09:28
lpappI would like to be able to build a simple ui for a headless board with oe-core, off-hand.09:29
zibrijust clone another layer, is that so hard? :)09:29
lpappfor one package to clone 100+?09:30
lpappyes, it is so hard09:30
lpappand so bloated.09:30
lpappand cluttered.09:30
zibribut if you include every recipe *you* want in oecore, that will get bloated as well09:30
lpapphuh? no?09:30
zibriit's not like you have to use every recipe in meta-oe either09:30
lpappin fact, if you read what I write, I proposed to get the monster out, i.e. gnome.09:31
lpappfltk *is* a core ui toolkit for very headless boards.09:31
lpappso it is a natural fit for oe-core to me.09:31
lpappbut of course, you are free to prove me wrong anytime and give an alternative.09:32
lpappwhat to use on a core system.09:32
zibriwhy would a headless board need a gui toolkit?09:32
lpappbecause it has a small display?09:32
lpappcalled "LCD".09:33
zibrinot the ones i work with :)09:33
lpappoh, so if you do not work with it, it does not exist...09:33
JaMafltk is also bloated, because different recipes need different fltk versions09:33
lpapphuh? no?09:33
lpappactually, every distribution I know is using one version, and works fine.09:33
lpappeven meta-oe uses one.09:33
JaMasee oe-classic discussions about fltk, I know it's old09:34
lpappplease show a valid discussion.09:35
lpappwhich is a problem _today_.09:36
lpappwhat is "LEAD_SONAME" ?09:45
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lpappmeta-openembedded patches do not go to the oe-core mailing list?09:57
lpappwhat does '2' mean in the qmake2 class?10:04
lpappis there a tutorial somewhere how to write class files?10:06
RPlpapp: LEAD_SONAME is used by debian.bbclass for package renaming. Its something we'll probably remove eventually10:07
lpappyeah, it looks like a tremendeous hack.10:07
RPlpapp: meta-oe patches go to where the readme says they should go10:07
lpappis there a tutorial somewhere how to write class files?10:09
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RPI suspect the answer to the specific question is no10:14
lpappis there a way to submit a change to a mailing list without subscribing and waiting for moderation?10:37
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RPlpapp: if you subscribe you shouldn't hit the moderation10:52
rburtonlpapp: you can subscribe and turn off mail delivery11:03
lpappI do not wanna subscribe.11:25
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lpappJaMa: how can I pass configure options to qt5?11:43
lpappwith your layer?11:43
lpappto use the feature system for instance.11:44
JaMain some cases it's not so simple (for options with only auto-detection) see qtmultimedia for example11:45
lpappJaMa: have you seen my patch btw?11:46
JaMayes, it was missing [meta-qt5] prefix in subject but otherwise looks OK11:47
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lpappJaMa: nope, the second is fine.11:47
lpappJaMa: your suggestion in the readme sends two emails11:47
lpappno idea why...11:47
lpappit asked me the same question twice.11:47
JaMaid you combine -1 and <commit-id> ?11:48
lpappJaMa: no, I passed 0001... that may have been the reason then.11:48
JaMayes it's the same issue as git send-email -1 <commit-id> which sends HEAD-1 + <commit-id> patches11:49
lpapprburton: have you seen my question about TOPDIR and so?11:51
lpappyesterday evening.11:51
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balister_tlwoerner, that was a good talk you guys gave at Linaro connect14:52
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tlwoernerCrofton: thanks :-)15:04
tlwoerneri helped more with the lab, which i don't think was recorded15:05
tlwoernerthe lab was tough to do, despite having DVDs and USB sticks prepared with DL_DIR and sstate-cache15:06
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Crofton|worklabs are tough15:19
Crofton|workyou should chat with the people that help with the dev day labs15:20
Crofton|workfiguring out how to do labs wwithout lots of infrastructure is an issue15:20
tlwoernerthe whole presentation (which was recorded) was done by Nicolas (ndec); he did a great job!15:36
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nerdboythis is very nice =>
* nerdboy can't wait to try it...17:52
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JaMasomeone interested in evolution-data-server?18:10
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nerdboyi would assume gnome and/or telepathy folks would be...20:54
nerdboyeds is a dependency for a full/modern gnome20:55
JaManerdboy: it's broken for some time, so I'm looking for someone willing to update/fix it20:56
JaManerdboy: and it's better when that someone is actually using it too :)20:56
nerdboyi thought that was your way of saying you just fixed/pushed it...20:59
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JaManerdboy: no it was moved from oe-core to meta-gnome in meta-oe because of lack of testability and interest21:06
JaManerdboy: now it's broken since last glib upgrade21:07
nerdboyhappen to know which version of glib broke it?21:08
JaMaI can check "State of bitbake world" threads to see since when it's broken21:10
nerdboygot a bug number instead?21:10
JaMait was broken in May already
nerdboyis there a non-git version of evolution-data-server?21:13
nerdboyall i see is evolution-data-server_git.bb21:13
JaMaso probably broken since upgrade from 2.34.3 to 2.36.021:14
JaMaDate:   Sun Apr 21 14:37:16 2013 -070021:14
JaMathat's why I was asking if there is someone actually using it :)21:15
JaMaat least cheese, contacts, dates are also unavailable since then21:16
JaManerdboy: only git recipe is there21:16
nerdboyeds-3.6.4 works with glib-2.36.321:16
JaMa2.32.3 should be working with it too and is closer to what we have now21:17
nerdboyand on the gentoo side i only see patches for eds-2.3x21:17
JaMabut there is quite a few patches which will need rebase and testing in runtime21:17
nerdboy2.32.3 with patches...21:18
JaMaso I've started with update and then decided to leave it to someone using it and spend my time fixing other recipes instead21:18
nerdboyright now i'm using as little gnome as i can get away with...21:18
nerdboyplus i have afew requests in the queue already21:19
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JaMaanyone see this before? work-shared/gcc-4.8.1-r0/gcc-4.8.1/gcc/cfgloop.h:20:0: error: unterminated #ifndef22:45
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sgw1JaMa: no, what target? master?22:55
JaMamaster qemux86-6422:57
JaMastarted after today's oe-core upgrade22:57
sgw1hmm, I am building master on the AB, but I built MUT earlier this week with that set of changes.22:59
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JaMamaybe it one-of-issue, will try to cleansstate after the build end23:00
nerdboy*liberally sprinkle "s" where needed...23:02
* nerdboy waits for the espresso23:06
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JaMasgw_: build fine after cleansstate :/23:53

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